Phil Spencer, Microsoft’s head of gaming and therefore the overlord of all things Xbox, has thrown some serious shade at Sony and Nintendo. Even though the Xbox Series X is due to launch around the same time as the PS5, into a market where the Nintendo Switch and Nintendo Switch Lite have both sold very well, Spencer has said that Microsoft doesn’t see Nintendo and Sony as its major rivals right now.

As Spencer explained it: “That’s not to disrespect Nintendo and Sony, but the traditional gaming companies are somewhat out of position. I guess they could try to re-create Azure, but we’ve invested tens of billions of dollars in cloud over the years.”

Additionally, apparently Spencer implied that Microsoft is “willing to cooperate with Nintendo and Sony on initiatives like allowing gamers on the various companies’ systems to play with and against one another.” Despite the fact these three companies have long been considered rivals, it seems like there may be more collaboration between them as the gaming industry grows and changes to incorporate more technological challengers.